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Input onto new forum structure

Ralex's Avatar Ralex10/23/17 4:55 pm history
23 emeralds 14.7k 81
4/23/2019 11:11 am
raidarr's Avatar raidarr
Greeting PMC forums users!

As time has progressed, we are aware that the current structure of our forum is both lacking and ineffective in both usability and clarity. We have sat down long and hard at looking at how to restructure the forums in order to make the navigation and classification of the threads easier to find, and to bring the content you want to see first.

As such, we are looking for your own inputs into the structure.

A few ground rules about this though, so you do not get carried away:

A) This will likely be a full forum restructure, so do not expect anything to stay outright. If there's no value that we can see, expect it to disappear.

B) We do not need a full structure from users. If you only want to offer a suggestion for a part, feel free!

C) This would only be a structure change. Actual functionality of the forum is not changing. We will not change how threads look, but will change how they are grouped.

D) This change will result in a rules change in order to address the new structure. Just because the rules say you can or can't do it now does not mean it will not change. You can suggest rule changes if they are fitting with the new structure.

So give us your ideas and thoughts about the forum structure! What works, what doesn't, what would you change if you could?
Posted by Ralex's Avatar
Ralex
Retired Moderator
Level 13 : Journeyman Network
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81

11/27/2017 11:21 pm
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raidarr
11/28/2017 11:53 am
Level 22 : Expert Blockhead
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That looks easy on paper, but I doubt it would be quite as effective in practice, or particularly simple to implement without having a number of possible false alarms, bugs and other hiccups. Sounds to me like the issue is better handled +1 or two folks to check the section and a clear set of rules at the top (not that many people even read them, given the amount of people that post "looking for ___" threads).
1
1blackhawk
11/13/2017 11:05 pm
Level 26 : Expert Birb
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We should change how you bump your forum thread. Maybe you could make it so anyone except yourself can bump your thread.
2
Karrfis
11/14/2017 11:38 am
Level 35 : Artisan Birb
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that would turn into crazy spam
1
1blackhawk
11/14/2017 11:51 am
Level 26 : Expert Birb
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How. Everyone bumps their own thread, so if we modified that so only other people can bump your thread, that would take away needless, pointless, idiotic threads. I've seen a thread with more than 300 replies, and more than 200 were from the person who made it. And as a result, that thread was in the PMC forum activity for more than 3 weeks straight.
1
Karrfis
11/14/2017 1:50 pm
Level 35 : Artisan Birb
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the idea of the new forums is bumping isnt needed, if the thread stays active it wont vanish, threads left untouched for a month with no activity will become inactive, meaning they no longer appear in the "active" tab, people bumping threads wont do anything, the thread will already be in the "active" tab for at least a month and can be acted on accordingly, bumping doesnt need to exist
1
_Anomalous
11/07/2017 6:49 pm
Level 27 : Expert Ranger
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"Wanna join my server?" has to go.
3
Karrfis
11/08/2017 9:19 am
Level 35 : Artisan Birb
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when we tweak the rules i think we should have a look at formats and/or guidelines for how people post their server threads
2
Nightshade73
11/07/2017 7:10 pm
Level 51 : Grandmaster Network
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Wanna join MY server? ;))))
1
CHorse
11/07/2017 12:10 pm
Level 39 : Artisan Fish
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Make it so I can find MY posts again. I don't like having to click on forums then realizing I have to go back to my profile agains to look at the posts I've been in.
5
Paril
11/07/2017 6:14 pm
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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Coming soon, yes.
4
JediJerboa
11/07/2017 1:24 pm
Level 36 : Artisan Pokemon
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I know right? I said the same thing!
1
CHorse
11/07/2017 2:50 pm
Level 39 : Artisan Fish
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Duz dat mean we're 'great minds'?
2
JediJerboa
11/12/2017 11:20 am
Level 36 : Artisan Pokemon
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Heck yeah! We think alike, don’t we?
2
granmasboy99
11/07/2017 2:55 pm
Level 9 : Apprentice Network
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As said by many others, I wholeheartedly agree in the sense that server posts need to be completely removed from the equation in the forums. I think PMC Forums still have a use these days, but for those that are posting, their posts won't get seen at all because of the constant spam of servers that 9/10 people are 100% uninterested in joining. Keep the servers under the server page, not in the forums that were designed for a complete different use.
4
JediJerboa
11/07/2017 9:31 am
Level 36 : Artisan Pokemon
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I would like my search function back. I don't like spending 20 minutes sorting through my 900 posts to find what I'm looking for. It's making transferring info from my sci-fi thread a real pain.
2
Paril
11/07/2017 6:17 pm
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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A more powerful search is on the list, but it's gonna be a while. Searching is a pain to implement. I have a rudamentary system working, but I didn't want to put too much energy into a MySQL searching engine if we're going to push it all to solr in the future, which will allow for advanced features like "search for my posts between January and June with "sci fi" in the title".
3
JediJerboa
11/08/2017 12:03 am
Level 36 : Artisan Pokemon
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Thank you for the update. It's definitely going to make my life easier.
1
Jetra
11/06/2017 11:13 pm
Level 39 : Artisan Scribe
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My honest opinion is to just straight up remove these forums since 1) nobody uses them and 2) when they are it's nothing but server ads.

Waited for two and a half years to get a new forums and it's worse than it was before. You'd be better off just focusing all the resources just for the uploads of maps and such (probably should also remove Blogs while you're at it).

Game's dead and if anyone new or old came they'd most likely go to MCF.
1
raidarr
11/07/2017 11:45 am
Level 22 : Expert Blockhead
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1) the forums are frequently used, you apparently have not paid attention.
2) your vision is skewed by the fact that the forum throws every thread created onto the front page, and the bulk happens to be servers. It does not mean other threads aren't there, simply that you have to search for them.
3) Where's my salt emoji?
5
Jetra
11/07/2017 12:56 pm
Level 39 : Artisan Scribe
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1) 2 non-server related posts a day on a site of two million does not an active forum make
2) A cursory glance of any section will net you at least 1/3rd server-related topics
3) Try Twitch.
1
raidarr
11/07/2017 1:13 pm
Level 22 : Expert Blockhead
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Irrelevant. There are posts and activities being held outside of the server forum, and there are very few sites dedicated that legitimately compete with PMC in terms of overall activity, as well as forum activity.

The server forum being particularly active does not make the forums as a whole dead (and by the way, doesn't that mean that since a section is particularly active, it would be asinine to remove it?). There are still uses to the forum, and if your suggestion to remove it is serious, then there is little good reason to follow it through.

Especially when your ending statement is "game's dead" which is a bald-faced lie, with the second part being unsubstantiated.
6
Paril
11/07/2017 6:15 pm
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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Also don't forget he could unfollow the section.
4
Paril
11/07/2017 3:16 am
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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With almost 8 years of content, it's a bit of a stiff decision to "straight up remove". Not much is gained by removing something that people do use. Admittedly, they aren't used as much as I want them to be, but they are still being used quite heavily, and as such there is still a reason for keeping this alive.

Server advertisements are definitely a problem, and I agree whole-heartedly that we need to figure out a way to keep them from being the only thing people see. The fact that so many new servers pop up there is kind of nice, in my opinion, but it's not fun to see only servers on your feed when you have no interest in joining them. For that reason, you can unfollow that category, and you'll never have to see them again; I didn't understand why this argument came up since I had unfollowed it from the beginning of the new forums, but I definitely see it now. We're going to see what we can do about that.

Same deal with removing blogs. There's a ton of good content there, and contests for blogs do quite well. No good reason for doing so.

Game's not dead; Minecraft is an enigma in that it's had so many peaks over the years. I don't think it'll be dead any time soon. If it had died, I wouldn't have a job any more.
5
Acier
11/27/2017 9:54 pm
Level 52 : Grandmaster Professor
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doesnt the fact that it dying puts you out of a job make you a little biased
1
Havingfun_ISKEY
11/08/2017 7:06 am
Level 64 : High Grandmaster Princess
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I agree with most of this, but, what's your definition of "quite well"? The past two blog contests or so got less than 100 entries. Even for a non-skin contest, and considering it's 2017, it's still kind of sad, to be honest.
1
xXGothicXx
11/07/2017 10:07 am
Level 26 : Expert Geek
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I agree.
2
Jetra
11/07/2017 8:29 am
Level 39 : Artisan Scribe
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Server advertisements are definitely a problem, and I agree whole-heartedly that we need to figure out a way to keep them from being the only thing people see.

Setting Table of Contents as the front would be a good start instead of Trending.

Game's not dead; Minecraft is an enigma in that it's had so many peaks over the years. I don't think it'll be dead any time soon. If it had died, I wouldn't have a job any more.

I'm not talking about dead dead because the Game has a lot of content, but in the same way that World of Warcraft is not quite as alive as it was back during Burning Crusades. The community is not as it once was and the game is not as it used to be albeit that 1.12 did do a lot of good for the game, other titles have come to take its place.
1
Paril
11/07/2017 6:04 pm
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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The community has shifted, but it's got more and more players than it did before. The fact that so many servers are popping up is quite evident of this, + our visitor stats being fairly consistent within the past few years. It may have passed its initial major super duper peak, but it's certainly not in the valley of death where we have only a handful of maintainers left.

A ToC-Feed hybrid is something we're going to investigate. For a quick-fix, allowing persistent front page (either ToC or feed) and setting ToC as the default will probably help, but it's not a fix-all because they'll still see them if they go to Minecraft as that's where the majority of them are.
3
Jetra
11/07/2017 6:38 pm
Level 39 : Artisan Scribe
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You're the one with the stats, I generally go by what I see personally as well as live statistics sites as well as generally scope around gaming and social sites.

Funny enough, I was going to suggest a mix of stuff, but maybe a soft / hard cap on a particular section might do one better.
1
JediJerboa
11/07/2017 9:14 am
Level 36 : Artisan Pokemon
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The reason we can't really delete this stuff is because not all of it is game-related. Look at my sci-fi thread for instance. Can you even fathom how angry I would be if over a year's worth of development was just straight-up deleted? I feel many others would feel the same if their most dedicated threads disappeared.
1
xXGothicXx
11/07/2017 12:21 am
Level 26 : Expert Geek
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As much has all the server adds bug me, I must disagree, I think the forums are a great way for the players to talk, since no one is ever on chat and it's always down. I feel server adds however should be put into a different area, not the forum, because A, they are extremely annoying, and B, they flood the forums. I also do agree though, that yes, they should focus on maps and better ways for the more popular things, and to be honest, get rid of blogs, they are never used.
1
Paril
11/07/2017 1:30 am
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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Chat's been down like three times in the past few months, and they've all been fairly recent & caught quickly.
1
xXGothicXx
11/07/2017 10:06 am
Level 26 : Expert Geek
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well for me its always down, it never works, is more of what i meant.
1
Paril
11/07/2017 6:02 pm
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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What does it say when you try it? Are you using a modern browser (Chrome/Firefox/Edge/Safari)?
1
Leeberator
11/07/2017 12:03 am
Level 47 : Master Button Pusher
history
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Across all platforms, Minecraft has sold 122 million copies, 16 million of which were sold this year. As of February, Minecraft has averaged about 55 million monthly players - that means 45% of purchases are being used on a monthly basis. Those figures should be expected to grow as the killer cross-play feature expands to more platforms.

The game's far from dead.
2
LightlySaltedBuilder
10/29/2017 4:07 pm
Level 53 : Grandmaster Architect
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Also, what if there was a karma-like system where you lose xp for reported and deleted replies, so that it's not possible to spam posts for xp, because they'll lose xp instead of gaining.
2
Karrfis
11/07/2017 11:43 am
Level 35 : Artisan Birb
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you do loose exp from having your thread/post if you spam threads for exp karrthus will have ya
1
Kequo
10/29/2017 5:44 pm
Level 10 : Journeyman Engineer
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I somewhat agree.

I'd like to see a module on profiles that show how many approved reports a username has made. That way someone can show off how much they're helping the community.
2
Acier
11/27/2017 10:43 pm
Level 52 : Grandmaster Professor
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i for one think this is an excellent idea :P karr
1
Karrfis
11/07/2017 11:45 am
Level 35 : Artisan Birb
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if the count started from now there would be like three people with these numbers on their profile, people do not activity report things which makes it harder for us as staff to find everything
1
Acier
11/27/2017 9:56 pm
Level 52 : Grandmaster Professor
history
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well maybe those 3 people deserve to be mentioned ;)
1
LightlySaltedBuilder
10/26/2017 9:45 pm
Level 53 : Grandmaster Architect
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In my opinion the should enlarge the size of replies, because currently they feel more like comments than replies, which is the main thing I don't like.

Also it would be nice to be able to see a short excerpt from the original post in the sidebar, like you used to be able to, or if not by hovering over it should be visible.
8
Paril
11/07/2017 3:18 am
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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I'll think about the first part. The only reason they are the size they are is for consistency with the site & submissions. We wanted them to feel like they were part of the same website (and potentially re-use this code for the submission comments in the future).

I like the idea about the excerpt; I don't remember that being there in phpBB.
1
SwanCraftMC
10/27/2017 9:33 am
Level 40 : Master Network
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Replies have been bugging me and I didn't know why. Now I know why. xD They do indeed feel like comments. It doesn't really have that discussion feel.
4
raidarr
10/27/2017 6:09 pm
Level 22 : Expert Blockhead
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Amen to that. One of my core complaints with the system.
1
Paril
11/07/2017 3:17 am
Level 88 : Elite Scapegoat
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What are your other core complaints?
1
raidarr
11/07/2017 1:04 pm
Level 22 : Expert Blockhead
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I'll start with the current one, and say that while it's commendable to go for consistency in design, forums are fundamentally different from comments. Comments are simply not on the "same level" as forum posts. I consider the OP of a thread to hold similar, if not the same validity as subsequent posts. Under the current system, subsequent posts seem almost immaterial compared to the OP in comparison. It simply doesn't feel like a forum. That's really the largest one, but a few things bug me about the structure as well.

> The big subscribe button besides a username. It would be lovely if that subscribe button actually subscribed you to a thread, but as it stands, there's not really a point to having a big button to subscribe right in the spot that it's at. Again, it's the distinction between forums and everything else. It's good to have the design reflect the rest of the site. I find the philosophy to be overdone when you're literally making a thread's OP just another content submission with the same UI, such as that subscribe button. Forums differ, and a subscribe button on the forum typically has a different point than just "subscribe to user".

> Two other points were covered already, and so are somewhat repetitive. Restructured forum intros for better navigation and better clarification of rules/what each section is for, as suggested by Karrthus, and a table of contents page to avoid the blob that is every thread thrown into a pit. I can see why that's a potentially valid design choice; reddit has a similar appearance and Steam game forums/group forums don't believe in tables of contents, period. That said, aside from my personal distaste of any structure that has the landing page as a blob of threads, in this case it simply doesn't work due to the thread spam. At the very least, were the table of contents to be permanently disposed of, a formula would have to be created to make each section have better representation based on forum type as well as activity (which would result in the serves forum having far less representation as it does now). That wouldn't be the simplest thing to add; a table of contents, far simpler.

> This is more relevant to something that would go into the tickets forum, but while I'm going the full distance, I'd like to note that the post has weird behavior in regards to formatting once you edit it. If that hasn't been reported, I could do more thorough testing and put a ticket together for that.
1
raidarr
11/07/2017 1:07 pm
Level 22 : Expert Blockhead
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As a very trivial aside, I wouldn't mind seeing a more clear rule, if one exists, for posts aimed at subscribers to be made from wall posts. Forum posts dedicated only to subscribers of one person are unnecessarily public if the content excludes anyone that isn't a subscriber, especially if it includes content with a stipulation that I recently saw that I'll summarize: "go away if you didn't subscribe to me before I made this post. <post asking specific question for what to make from subscribers>"
1
Cib
10/27/2017 2:26 am
Level 48 : Master Button Pusher
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Totally
1
10/27/2017 6:49 pm
This reply was removed by the poster or a moderator.
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